This is part 2 of my conversation with Dr. Matthew McKay, Ph.D. In part 1, we discussed the foundations of how Dr. McKay thinks of process-based therapy. Today, we discuss, in particular, different mechanisms of actions:
How reassurance seeking shows up in our day-to-day life
About Matthew
Dr. Matthew McKay, Ph.D., cofounder of New Harbinger Publications, joins us to talk about evidence-based resources and the ever-changing landscape of therapy. Matthew is a professor at the Wright Institute in Berkeley, CA. He has authored and co-authored numerous books, including The Relaxation and Stress Reduction Workbook, The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook, Self-Esteem, and Couple Skills, which have sold more than four million copies combined. He received his Ph.D. in clinical psychology from the California School of Professional Psychology and specializes in the cognitive behavioral treatment of anxiety and depression.
If anxiety is a part of our day to day life, if we hold on to the framework that to be human is to be anxious, how did anxiety ever become a problem?
How do you go from worrying about not being good enough to chronic states of worry?
How do you go from feeling uncomfortable taking the elevator to developing an elevator phobia?
What maintains a psychological struggle?
And what are the skills – the core skills – that you can learn to navigate those anxious moments and get back into your life?
Short-term fixes that help us avoid or numb our emotions may temporarily alleviate our internal discomfort, but the same responses can also end up causing anxiety, depression, chronic anger, and even physical health problems.
Matthew McKay, Ph.D., cofounder of New Harbinger Publications, joins us to talk about evidence-based resources and the ever-changing landscape of therapy. Matthew is a professor at the Wright Institute in Berkeley, CA. He has authored and co-authored numerous books, including The Relaxation and Stress Reduction Workbook, The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook, Self-Esteem, and Couple Skills, which have sold more than four million copies combined. He received his Ph.D. in clinical psychology from the California School of Professional Psychology and specializes in the cognitive behavioral treatment of anxiety and depression.
“The waves in the ocean seem different today,” I think, as I walk along the beach shore, noticing the size of the waves and hearing them crashing down on the sand.
“Would the ferry be on time? Would I make it on time to the airport?”
I keep walking towards the small local beach coffee shop that has 8 white tables. “I’m ready to sip a cold green juice in this hot weather,” I think, after seeing that the temperature was 91F at that moment.
A waitress, wearing black shorts and a white t-shirt takes my order and listens to my question: “Do you think the ferry is on time today?”
He looks at the ocean, trying to read the impact of the waves on the ferry schedule, and says, “I don’t know.”
I softly smiled, “I see.”
He smiles back and goes to prepare my green juice.
As I’m staring at the ocean, I hear a voice that says, “The ferry is on time, there are no rains or storms …. the waves are different right now, but just on the shore. Nothing to worry about.”
I look in the direction that the voice comes from, and then see three gentleman, wearing beach suits and sitting around a table while having their meal.
– I heard you asking the waitress about the ferry. – Do you think the ferry will be on time? – The water is calm in the ocean, it’s just the shore. – Where are you from? – We are from Australia and come here every year to visit our family. – Oh wow, which part of Australia? – Do you want to join us?
For the next three hours, as the waitress brought burgers, french fries, cold iced lemonade with no sugar, and cold beer, the conversation unfolded about childhood friends, politics, managerial problems, cultural roots, trust, religion, architecture, relationships, love, construction, workouts, health, and traveling.
That afternoon, these three gentlemen taught me a new word “parea”
I have always been fond of rich conversations, the ones that unfold into the many areas of our lives, the ones that capture the tapestry of our lives, the ones that make us forget the time passing by.
What does Parea have to do with playing-it-safe?
When we play-it-safe, we are quickly in our heads.
We doubt, anticipate, dwell on the past, and rely on 10 – thinking strategies that while necessary and useful at times, they can also be the beginning path of stuckness in our head and narrowness in our behavior. Those playing-it-safe moves, as I usually refer to safety-seeking behaviors, can also take us away from exploring the world, connecting with others, facing the unknown and adapting to day-to-day situations as they happen.
So today, I want to remind you of a psychological principle:
Curiosity
Why do you go to the bathroom?
Why is it yellow?
How many friends do you have?
Are you blue?
Why do we sleep?
Kids have fascinating inquisitive minds. They keep asking and asking for no other reason except that they just want to learn about the world around them. Researchers tried to figure out how often kids ask questions. Turns out, they ask on average 107 questions per hour.
“Episodes of curiosity,” as psychologist Susan Engel calls them, decrease as kids grow. For example, asking direct questions, manipulating objects, or direct gazing occurs 2.36 in a period of hours in kindergarten, and then only 0.48 in fifth grade.
Curiosity has been described as the “wick in the candle of learning,” but what about adults? Well, as we get older somehow, we get less curious. Some studies suggest that a decrease in curiosity in adults could be caused by our increase in knowledge. It’s like the more we know, the less curious we are .. oh boy!!!
Interesting benefits of curious behaviors
Curiosity keeps you mentally young: nourishing a sense of wonder throughout life as well as novelty-seeking behaviors.
Curiosity helps you to make better decisions: when acting curiously, you’re less likely to have a fixed-mindset or fall prey to confirmation bias (looking for information that supports your beliefs rather than exploring other data that suggests your beliefs are not the absolute truth).You’re more likely to consider more options when facing a dilemma than looking at things as black and white.
Curiosity helps you learn: curious behaviors and openness to the new help you better remember new information.The more curious you’re about a topic, the more likely you’re going to remember it.
Curiosity helps you to have better relationships because curious and genuine questions about others’ passions, hurts, struggles, work, and so on, help you to really get to know someone. The more curious you’re about the person in front of you, the more meaningful relationships you have.
How to practice curiosity in your day-to-day life
What are your go-to playing-it-safe moves?
Do you play-it-safe by:
Criticizing and negatively judging yourself?
Taking your mind too seriously?
Disengaging and using safety crutches?
Anticipating doom and gloom in future scenarios and rumination?
Discounting and ignoring what’s important to you?
Postponing, delaying, and procrastinating things?
Searching for reassurance and certainty?
Assuming over-responsibility for others’ well-being and important matters?
Second-guessing and believing negative stories about yourself?
Doing things right and perfectly?
When noticing this urge to play-it-safe, try this:
Ask yourself, what’s my mind trying to protect me right now?
What’s so hard about this situation, that my mind wants me to play-it-safe sooo badly?
What do I need to experience, if I don’t go along with that playing-it-safe move?
Do you want to get unstuck from wrestling with worries, fears, anxieties, obsessions, and ineffective playing-it-safe actions?
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Learn research-based skills and actionable steps to make better decisions, adjust to uncertain situations, make bold moves, and do more of what matters to you.
How often do you assume the worst-case-scenario when facing a difficult situation?
When was the last time someone invited you to a party, and you started worrying about it months in advance?
Do you stress about situations that have not happened yet?
When we are dealing with worries, anxieties, fears, we all play-it-safe. You might be playing it safe if you get stuck thinking of doom and gloomy scenarios, you may find yourself asking others what to do in order for you to not make any more mistakes.
Anybody can learn how our minds work and how to work with them. In this episode, I interview Dr. Sally Winston, Psy.D., an anxiety expert. She and I discuss different skills to manage those future-oriented thoughts and those moments in which you get stuck in your imagination.
You will learn actionable skills to stop worrying about what might happen and live fully in the moment.
Key Takeaways
Definition of anticipatory anxiety.
How to handle moments in which your imagination hijacks you.
Three different levels of fear.
The difference between rumination and planning.
How to shift from “what if” to “what is.”
Dr. Winston’s metaphor of how to handle uncertainty.
The opposite of uncertainty, is not what you think it is.
Metacognitions.
Productive thinking versus unproductive thinking.
About Dr. Sally Winston, Psy.D.
Dr. Winston has been recognized regionally and nationally for over 40-years for her expertise in the treatment of OCD and anxiety disorders. After working at Sheppard Pratt Hospital for 17 years, she co-founded The Anxiety and Stress Disorders Institute of Maryland in 1992.
She has served multiple roles including Chair of the Clinical Advisory Board of the Anxiety and Depression Association of America and was honored with the first Jerilyn Ross Clinician Advocate Award in 2011.
Two skills to distinguish effective playing-it-safe moves from ineffective ones
How to handle uncertainty
How to handle ruling-thoughts about thinking (metacognitions)
In the middle of the conversation, you will hear me practicing “how to say” one of my favorite words in English and one of Jonathan’s favorite jokes related to anxiety and playing-it-safe.
About Jonathan Kaplan, Ph.D.
In 1991, Jonathan earned a B.A. in Asian Studies (Japanese) from Tufts University. After spending a few years working in law, he later earned both his M.A. and Ph.D. in clinical psychology from UCLA. He has also been active as a professor, writer, and clinical supervisor.
As a clinical psychologist, he specializes in: issues unique to New York City professionals, couples therapy, young adult informed therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy, interpersonal psychotherapy, mindfulness and meditation, evidence-based treatments, and achieved Diplomate status in cognitive therapy.
Dealing effectively with anxiety and the discomfort that comes with it is a fundamental skill. It allows you to do what you care about and excel in life, especially when facing unfamiliar situations or unpleasant moments.
In this episode, I interviewed Dr. Joel Minden. He is the director of the Chico Center for Cognitive Behavior Therapy, Diplomate of the Academy of Cognitive and Behavioral Therapies (A-CBT), and the author of the anxiety management self-help book, “Show Your Anxiety Who’s Boss.”
Key Takeaways
In this interview, Joel and I discussed:
Three particular skills to manage anxiety (based on the book “Show Your Anxiety Who’s Boss”)
